Evolution VS Creationism

[TyrannoTitan]

The evilest discussion in the world......What do you believe? Creation or Evolution? I say Evolution.

Now, this is to be a DISCUSSION, not a flame-fest. No "Person A is a ******* for believing that..." It's a discussion, nothing more, nothing less.

The reason for this topic is because I've been getting alot of lip from my friends because of my beliefs. So, I decided to take the arguement to more.....civilizied people. (My friends act stupid and juvenile. They won't let me talk about the way I think. They see it as if you don't believe in their beliefs, its wrong.)

DISCUSS!

[Doc 42]

Im not sure if this is ture, but I heard most Creationists (60% of ameirica)
Belive that the earth is less than 10000 years old,
And seriouly, your freinds would get angry at you for not beliving what they belive???!?!??!

[TyrannoTitan]

Yep, its true. I can't even speak my opinion. My one friend just talks over me.

Also, they think its not possible to believe in God, Evolution, and Reincarnation in one religion like I do. I don't see it as a big deal.

This would be our coversation:

" You can't believe in all that at once, Dylan. It's against God."

"I say I can."

"You can't."

"How can't I? I'm doing it right now."

That usually shuts them up. And yes, I know I used my real name. I'm an admin (which I should trust you people) and the fact that I don't give a **** if anyone knows my name. It's not a big deal in my eyes.

[Dinonerd]

I believe in God but i just can't help but believing in evolution either. They have proved it so many times that animals evolve.

[The Kingpin]

Put simply, i believe in Evolution AFTER Creation. the creature is created by god, and evolves as time goes on and needs arise and fade. simple as that. reincarnation? bah. you have one life. live it the way a believer does [(not the fast for 3 weeks without breaks, that's suicidal. maybe every other day, from dawn to dusk. that works, and i've been thinking of it myself...), giving food and money to the ones in need, not causing trouble with others, praying often...etc], and you get Heaven. live it like one big party with no restrictions whatsoever, and you get hell later on. yep, that's what i believe in. life of a believer, for the ultimate party later

[mega raptor]

I believe in evolution, simply because I cannot trust any source that claims to be right on the basis of an Argument from Authority and nothing more over modern, un-biased, falsifiable science.

[TyrannoTitan]

I believe differently. I believe you have a choice to either stay in heaven, or came back down to earth as a creature of your choice. Everyone's beliefs are different so I don't know how my friends can say the crap that they say.

[Doc 42]

Recently I just decided that if god exists, he is sadly rather stupid. So its easyir to belive that he doesnt exist. I used to belive what TT [Dylan] does, but I just kept on altering it until I couldnt belive it anymore. Also, about heaven, I think its better to live life at its full, beacuse you might not be going to some paradise when you die. But I have absaloutly no agrument against people who do belive in god as, well It makes sense to them, as my therory suits me. As history has told us, never try to force your belifs on others. Re-incarnation and heaven together, I knew a guy who used to be bullied and once said to me "that at least next time I wont make the same mistake". That completely horrifyed me. I helped him out with the bullies and now he does belive in afterlife, but also wants to make the best of life on earth. But seriously bullying can do a lot more harm than whats shown on the outside.

[TyrannoTitan]

I don't care if you use my real name or just use "TT". Doesn't matter.

I believe in God, but I believe that he doesn't intervine. He isn't going to save you from everything. Just look at the old saying: "Everything happens for a reason" It's the truth too. Good or bad, it happens for a reason.

[The Kingpin]

lol. your opinion half matches mine. i say that God DOES intervine all the time, just not in a way that you would notice. or rather, we're too ignorant to notice it. some of the more major examples come in the form of battles won against impossibly powerful enemies. examples: WWII. Germany, Italy and Japan were basically annihilating anyone who stood in their way, but in the end, they were crushed regardless of how mighty they were. some of the truelly amazing examples lie in [sorry for buggin you with it again] Islamic battles at the start. the battle of Badr as an example. but i wont say anymore on that topic, to avoid turning this into another war like the Civilizations topic
the half of your opinion that i do agree with is that Everything happens of a Reason. no need to elaborate. you and i both know what it means, and there's no need for examples. it's too obvious to need them...

[HorseGal]

To tell you the truth, I believe in God, creation and evolution. I believe that God created the dinosaurs, then perhaps decided that their time was up, so they became extinct. In Genesis, it says that the earth was dark when it all began. It also says after the dinosaurs were extinct, the earth was dark. So then I think he decided to created the mammals. I like what KP says about evolution after creation. That sounds good too.

[TyrantTR]

lol big bump, this is in reply to the whole Intellectual Design thing in the movies section cause TT won't let us argue there.

Look the situations with people being expelled is overly dramatised, it seems to me as though Creationists and intuectually designers feel that they are victimized because evolution is accepted by most mainstream scientists. Now, if Intellegant design is supporting god, or an "Intellegent designer" than technically it is biased on religion.

And when has religeion involved any amount of science? God creating earth in 7 days come on. School is for educateing students, and really evolution is the only theroy that DOESN'T include god, so that will be science. Science is fact fiction is not. What really annoys me is that alot of the time people spread there religeon and wind up annoyning everyone. If you can't deal with what is scientificly accepted and what is not then really just block it out and don't listen. But evolution is the most accurate interpretation of the creation of life on this planet.

[C S]

Put simply, i believe in Evolution AFTER Creation. the creature is created by god, and evolves as time goes on and needs arise and fade. simple as that. reincarnation? bah. you have one life. live it the way a believer does [(not the fast for 3 weeks without breaks, that's suicidal. maybe every other day, from dawn to dusk. that works, and i've been thinking of it myself...), giving food and money to the ones in need, not causing trouble with others, praying often...etc], and you get Heaven. live it like one big party with no restrictions whatsoever, and you get hell later on. yep, that's what i believe in. life of a believer, for the ultimate party later

I believe that when god created the single cell, he made the conditions for different species to rise and fall, being unworthy in his eyes (dinosaurs, EG: Ate, slept, mated, repeat)

so humans arised, and sinse we'er intelligant and capable of seperate thought, he's kept us around, but causes natrual disasters to keep us in check, but science is slowly destroying god

[TyrantTR]

Put simply, i believe in Evolution AFTER Creation. the creature is created by god, and evolves as time goes on and needs arise and fade. simple as that. reincarnation? bah. you have one life. live it the way a believer does [(not the fast for 3 weeks without breaks, that's suicidal. maybe every other day, from dawn to dusk. that works, and i've been thinking of it myself...), giving food and money to the ones in need, not causing trouble with others, praying often...etc], and you get Heaven. live it like one big party with no restrictions whatsoever, and you get hell later on. yep, that's what i believe in. life of a believer, for the ultimate party later

I believe that when god created the single cell, he made the conditions for different species to rise and fall, being unworthy in his eyes (dinosaurs, EG: Ate, slept, mated, repeat)

so humans arised, and sinse we'er intelligant and capable of seperate thought, he's kept us around, but causes natrual disasters to keep us in check, but science is slowly destroying god

Now thats kind of far from my belif. I don't think god chooses what lives and dies.

This planet, god or not, is an expeiriment, twisted or not cells were plotted on earth and given there evolutionary rules, eventually they started multiplying, evolveing, changeing and they became reptile, witch grew to dinosaur and all of that, when the dinosaurs died the mammilian creatures got there chance to sucsessfully evolve and be just about as diverse as the dinosaurs were. And with that man, whose intellectual brains allowed them survival. It is always always always survival of the fittest. And because man was "smart" they went ahead huting and killing species, and what happens next? were colonizeing, the planet is ours were colonizeing until most animals are driven from ther habitat and not allowed a fighting chance, and hell science destroying god? If we get substantial proof that this whole entire planet and the universe was not made by god I won't care, I will still belive in god, god cannot be destroyed because people belive in him, and that is that, no amount of knoledge should change belief. aAnd you know what science will be science. Everything happens because science says it's possible. And thats the way it will stay.

[Legendary Elite]

Creation before Evolution, starting with big bang theory. The galaxy being born, the planets and moons then would've moved into formation around the sun and stayed in that formation ongoing for all time. Life on Earth starting with simple cells and then becoming aquatic life to eventually land life and then into Dinosaurs (you know how it goes) and then with them gone came the next dominant species to take over.

I don't believe in reincarnation as much as it is a nice thought but I of course believe there is a heaven otherwise how would you maintain yourself whilst your dead? Fall into constant blackness for all eternity? There must be something that comes after death surely? I believe that you should always try to learn from your mistakes, no matter how big and every once in a while dare to go that extra mile because there is that big reward at the end of it. You only get one shot at life and so should use it wisely and not cast it aside, learn to develop from your mistakes and if not? forget them then because your mistakes will continue to haunt you for all of your life such as "why you didn't ask that girl out?" or "why didn't I just try to graduate through Year 12?" which is why I regret a number of things in life I didn't do at a certain time here and there.

Why I believe that god doesn't stop these disasters that are chaotic across the planet (e.g. wars, global warming etc)? That is because I think that god is rather one who prefers to watch us solve our conflicts, he probably believes in his own opinion that wars are our way of solving out major conflicts between nations and that we are able to rebuild and rekindle ourselves afterward. If conflict were to be gone from our world, life would be pointless, it's what makes us the people we are today and I do not resent that. I think also the reason why god does not stop diseases or mental conditions in most people is that he wants us to be unique, so that there is differences in people and a balance of similarities as well (not just racial as well).

It's the same with people who are gays and lesbians, and bissexuals included, people should learn to respect them as they are as smart and as intelligent as us, just because they might seem to be different and possibly are heretic in front of god himself (we all know that the bible is against those who are attracted to the same gender), that doesn't mean they should be mistreated and abused. People are born this way sometimes and we can't help that and so rather than cast them aside we should be learning to cooperate with them.

[Raptor Llama]

So apparently I'm the only full creationist here. Now I beilive in natural selection, don't get me wrong, just not the whole deal of a speices creating an entirely different species, which it does not hold the genetic information of.

The single cell. The probability of it happening is about 0.00000000000000000000001

and that's just some random number. Now I don't think this can be the completely correct proof, since that many possibilities could take place and create something. But, how was the universe created? How did life as we know it get created? How did existence of anything anywere exist? Well, it's mind boggling...

so, let's say no creator. How did the first cell get created with a bunch of chemicals? And rocks? Waa?

and in responce to why can't the earth be created in 7 days is simple: Why can't it? If god can do anything, why not? Which brings me to another subject: plants.

Now how can the decendents of animals become a plant? Animals aren't going to evolve into plants. So how did plants get about? At all? Is there anything at all with plants?

And some things just make no sence. Like cells or something evolving hearts. This is impossible. If something needed something that could pump blood, it would need it right away, and it would simply die off. And how exactly would the heart start? Cells don't need hearts. Two completely different systems. It has no genetic information for a heart. It's just a bacteria.

Maybe more to come!

Don't use that many zeros, it stretchs the page.

[TyrantTR]

Really your points have been attempted before and it gets rather tireing to attempt to awnser.

The world is run on science, if you can't deal with that go into a corner and try to deal with that.

People aren't going to belive a god created this entire planet just because a set population belives it is so. Evolution makes perfect sence, it's animals adapting physically or mentally to get the upper edge over the others. And yes it is proven that animals are linked together because of DNA, cats, all the cats have similar DNA strands. And if you dare challenge me and say that the DNA GTA GTA or whatever thing could be incorrect then I'd like you to explain why we make a perfect clone by analysing that code. This stuff is put inot thought you got to understand, earth WAS created when asteroids clumped to gether and made a landmass, the big bang will be a leading theory because there is not a single word of god in it, and evloution will be supported because it's existance has been proven time and time again.

[TyrannoTitan]

Creationists respond to everything they don't understand as "the creator did it".

Why can't god create planets? You say because he's god? WONDERFUL answer! WAIT! Theres something missing...something called FACTS and his friend LOGIC.

Plants and Animals didn't decend from eachother, they are two VERY DIFFERENT living things that came from cells. Bacteria was the first things to exist on this earth, and from it cells mutated and adapted, and eventually formed into simple creatures. Bacteria and the like did come from the mixture of chemicals on a molecular level. See? I have FACTS we actually KNOW HAPPENED. Not some bullsh*t you blame on some creator we will never in our lives know even existed (In our LIVES, doesn't include death).

The earth wasn't formed in seven days. Astronimers see the process of planets forming every damned day. It takes alot more then 7 days, and there is no giant human standing beside it making it, so there goes your theory. And dude, we aren't the only intelligent things out there. There are BILLIONS OF PLANETS; if you think there aren't other beings as intelligent as us, you are a very shallow person.

Adam and Eve? Does the f*cking phrase "inbreeding" mean anything to Creationists?! I don't even need to explain.

The ark. WE DISCOVER SPECIES EVERY YEAR, there is NO WAY some random old dude collected EVERY species in the world before some magical flood that happened for no damn reason.

The bible is stories meant to teach morals, not to be taken as truth. I, too, believe in god, but I believe he created the template to the universe and let life find a way. He had nothing to do with our creation or the creation of earth, in my theory.

F*cking hate Creationists...Sorry RL, but these two (Mentioned earlier in the topic) friends at school used to torment me about not believing in this unexplained bullsh*t, and I get pissed easily now. No offense meant.

[Legendary Elite]

Yes that's what I meant by evolution after creationism, it all had to start somewhere and then aquatic life evolved into land life and finally into the largest creatures that ever walked the earth before dieing out.

[Raptor Llama]

it has never been flat out proven. Until a real change is witnessed, only then will it be proven. It is still a theory and nothing more and nothing less.

And you don't know they happened, you simply think that. It's a theory, again. Nothing is 100% positive. We weren't there.

Who says there isn't other life out there? And why can't the process be sped up? Or, why do they even have to be literal days? A day in God could be a thousand for man.

If there were only two humans on this earth, can no duh, of cource inbreeding is going to happen. Actually, quite technically speaking, all breeding is interbreeding.

And with the ark, how many times does this has to be explained. NOT EVERY SPEICES WAS COLLECTED. Only two of every two genus, mainly. From two genus the rest of the genus can come. And it wasen't even of every one. Anything aquatic was in the sea anyway. Bugs burrow, no need for them. Anything huge can come as an egg and/or infant. And then it dosen't come down to too many.

And the bible is for morals, but if your religion is that of christian, there is also some facts in it. Saying there all made up isn't really beiliving in god per-say. Or at least isn't being a prodostent or catholic or jew. Maybe some new kind.

Oh, again for the planets. Of cource not every planet is directly made by god. But I could say the same for offspring, and well, so much more.